Ratednine, indeed I disagree with him. Ancient Arabs were not Black, Maybe he meant the ancient Habashis whose Nabetean colony of Arabia was recruited into the Army of Alexander the Great. Arabs have had their own great civilization and they are very distinct from Africans. However, they greatly have interacted with Africans as witnessed by their culture. Islam was initially an African (Habashis)religion which Arabs fought before Arbizing it to spread it around the world.

Rated, you are back at it again. The fact is no European language contains more African words than Spanish. "Ojala", being a major expression, is not Latin but African (Wahala), precisely Dinka, whose soldiers you attributed a "minor" role in the conquest of Andulusia. Examine the words if you want and you'll see that the're are far from being Latin. To go back to theme of the debate, it's true that some Moors were Black and some were African and played a major role; that's undeniable and clear.

"Spanish is the language that contains the most African words." There are some words which thought to have come from Africa but the exact source is unknown. Some of those words existed in Latin some have alternate etymologies and they may or may not have entered into Spanish during the Middle Ages.

Ammianus Marcellinus In his book The Roman History, Book XIV.iv.1-7. (380 A.D.)) the Saracens a named that was used to describe the Arabs in both ancient and modern times were described as the Blemmys tribes who lived along the banks of the Nile beyond the cataracts. "The ancient gods of India are shown with Ethiopian crowns on their heads. e Old Testament, Moses first met Jehovah during his sojourn among the Midianites, who were an Ethiopian tribe. Now wheres your evidence Mr or Ms Ratednine

Ratednine, Black achievements during Moorish Spanish? I guess you ignore that to this Spanish is the language that contains the most African words. For people to used these words, it suggest that Africans did play a larger role than the one you acknowldge. Sorry but all sources and evidence acknowledge Ancient Mauritanians as being black Africans. Most of the rulers during during Roman Time were of Phoenician, Carthagenian (Greek), and Cyreneans (Greek) origin. Do Natives Rule America today?

"do you disagree with his assertion that the early Arabs were black Africans the same as Alexander the Great?" You have no proof that Arabs were black Africans; Arabs are Semite people coming from Arabia, not Africa. you have no case.

OK now the question was do you disagree with his assertion that the early Arabs were black Africans the same as Alexander the Great? If you do disagree feel free to site sources as to your disagreement! Opinions are appreciated but not necessary here! If you have no facts to back up your claim feel free to man up and back down, if not ill go over your findings and give you your props. Instead of calling each other liars and euro or Afro centrists like children going completely off the subj

Like what would you happen to have an example?

Why do African tribals keep trying to assign false histories to races?

I ment Ibn Duraid when he said "a fair skinned Arab was "unthinkable"!" You quoted this before and I replied that Abd Al Rahman I was fair skinned with red blond hair, so was the entire Umanyyad dynasty.

I know why you don't want to touch on Alexander" I don't know what you're saying about Alexander the Great. The subject is about Medieval Spain.

I know why you don't want to touch on Alexander the great but your right it was my mistake i didn't mean abd al rahman I ment Ibn Duraid when he said "a fair skinned Arab was "unthinkable"!" So which ever one you would like to touch on first is completely up to you! Just make sure you bring your A game because im finding more evidence daily, unlike some people!

"So you can't prove Alexander the great and Abd Al Rahman wrong" Maybe you an elaborate b/c I don't understand what you're saying. Which Abd Al Rahman is wrong and about what?

So you can't prove Alexander the great and Abd Al Rahman wrong so you resort to the typical Eurocentric babel about whos Afrocentric this and I choose not to believe regardless of the facts that. Ill do one even better, ill name Sub Saharan African Moorish tribes:the Beri beris of Nigeria, nor of the Touaregs of Niger, Chad and Mauritania, Lamtunas, the Fulanis, the Bozos, Almohades and Almoravids, Senegalese are all famous moorish tribes in Africa. So what you got to say about yourself now?

No thats nolt true, you can find more information on the internet about the history of mrocco and the rulling dynasties. The arabs had only power in spain between 711 and 1007, Then de Amazigh dynastie conquard northafrica and spain,portugal. And it weren't the Arabs but the Moslims, and the moslims wheren Arabs,persians and Imazighen.

"ancient mauritania has nothing to do with new Mauritania. both have the commonality of being black nation" You have no real evidence that it was black. Look at their rulers during Roman times. All white. I still don't know what black achievements you refer to during Moorish Spain.

ok i understand you now. Do you know if the garamante are related to the Gourmantche?

EvilOyo, you are right that there was no Nigeria back then. I chose the name to pinpoint as far as where soldiers were recruited. The beri Beri are none others than those Arabs called BarBar. Other than that I agree with you.

Ratednine, very entertaining again. Of course ancient mauritania has nothing to do with new Mauritania. both have the commonality of being black nation. Once agin you can see who is stealing whose history here. I challenge you to consult any dictionary or scholar about the etimology of the word Mauro and tell me that I am wrong in what I am saying. You have had multiple inaccuracies just hide you desire to discredit Africans achievements.

The belief that "the Arabs were black" doesn't have much ground to stand on

This is where "Mr. Black", "Mr. Brown" and "Mr. White" come from in the English language: Papua New Guineans described lighter-skinned relatives/friends as "white", but does that mean that hitherto-unknown Europeans exist in Papua New Guinea? And considering Arabic racism towards negroes (one tale of the "1001 Nights" has a black who PERFORMED A GOOD DEED BEING REMADE AS A 'WHITE' PERSON - how many sub-Saharan African societies believed good deeds = 'white' person?)

"The ARABS, for example, sometimes DESCRIBE THEMSELVES AS BLACK IN CONTRAST TO THE PERSIANS WHO ARE REDd, but AT OTHER TIMES AS RED (OR EVEN WHITE) IN CONTRAST TO THE AFRICANS WHO ARE BLACK" - "Race and Color in Islam", B. Lewis

On pre-Islamic Arab racial relativism: "These terms are usually used in a PERSONAL rather than ETHNIC sense, and would correspond to such words as SWARTHY, SALLOW, BLONDE OR RUDDY in our own modern usage more than to words like BLACK and WHITE. Sometimes they are used ETHNICALLY, but even then in a RELATIVE rather than ABSOLUTE sense."

"So by your not disagreeing with Abd Al Rahman" I have no idea what you mean. "Alexander SAW WITH HIS OWN TWO EYES all you want, the only problem is YOU HAVE NO P-R-O-O-F!" I'm not listening to J A Rogers who is no historian and full of inaccuracies. I'm sure there were some blacks in Arabia in small numbers. Most of them were Arabs with olive or tanned complexion. Why is it that you can't name any black African of note in the history of Moorish Spain.

So by your not disagreeing with Abd Al Rahman you accept the fact that everything south of Europe's carcus mnts was Black African and nothing more? You can tell me what you believe about what Alexander SAW WITH HIS OWN TWO EYES all you want, the only problem is YOU HAVE NO P-R-O-O-F! That not the only evidence I have where historians who visited Arabia and documented only seeing Africans and pale skinned carcasoid types in small numbers. Thats why you cant quote a Euro who says otherwise!